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I CAN'T NOT MAKE GAMES.
I have enough lockerspace to hold an episode of Friends.
"We'll make a toast to absent friends and better days,
To remembering and being remembered as brave
And not as a bunch of whining jerks!
Don't lose your nerve.
Do not go straight
You must testify
(or I'm going to come to your house and punch you in the mouth)
cause CLOWNS MUST STAND."
- TW/IFS, "All The World Is A Stage Dive"
I have enough lockerspace to hold an episode of Friends.
"We'll make a toast to absent friends and better days,
To remembering and being remembered as brave
And not as a bunch of whining jerks!
Don't lose your nerve.
Do not go straight
You must testify
(or I'm going to come to your house and punch you in the mouth)
cause CLOWNS MUST STAND."
- TW/IFS, "All The World Is A Stage Dive"
Iron Gaia
As the only human awake on board a space station controlled by an insane AI with delusions of deification, you must unravel the mystery of your own identity and discover: "What is the Iron Gaia?"
As the only human awake on board a space station controlled by an insane AI with delusions of deification, you must unravel the mystery of your own identity and discover: "What is the Iron Gaia?"
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Discouragement
author=Versalia
SOLELY because it was asked of me,First off, what does this even mean?Physhal, I appreciate that but I really think that's not the essence of what I said at all.
"I appreciate your comment but you don't understand what I said and you are totally wrong because I did not effectively convey my own meaning to you."
That's not what I was saying at all, and you're intentionally misunderstanding me.
I found the gameplay in Journeyman alone addictive enough to keep me wanting to play, but the other modes will definitely have more story if and when they get made and I still find the story of the Short game kind of cute and amusing.
"I like my OWN game and I still find your criticism of Short Mode to be invalid because *I* still like my OWN game."
I never said I found his criticism invalid at all. You're twisting my words to a grotesque degree. You are aware of that, aren't you?
You aren't doing anything but refuting essentially every single comment toward your game based on your own opinions of yourself and your work. This is effectively clapping your hands over your ears and saying LA LA LA LA to the things you don't wish to hear.
That's not in fact what I'm doing, but I'm starting to wonder if it's essentially what you're doing.
Nobody cares if you want to play your own game. Games are designed for the players, not for the designers. I don't care if you don't care what nobody else cares about - this is a basic fact of life, a basic fact of game design. If I were taking a page from the Max McGee Book of Commenting, this is where I would add "don't even try to argue or dissuade me - nothing you can say will change my mind in any way."
I will reiterate that nobody cares what you think nobody cares about, or at least I don't care what you think nobody cares about.
good manners, cordiality, or decency.I have specifically reported my own post/s to this end and was not warned or discouraged for my behavior and/or phrasing, leading me to believe that in the last few posts I have been nothing but cordial and decent, despite the fact that I said several things you clearly do not wish to hear. I'm sorry that you feel so incensed by my comments, but your behavior is utterly unacceptable and you are wildly pointing fingers in every direction other than yourself.
Your recent posts have certainly been better.
I'm sorry that you feel so incensed by my comments, but your behavior is utterly unacceptable and you are wildly pointing fingers in every direction other than yourself.
Whoa, sorry guys. I really didn't mean to seem like I was going out of my way to rip it apart. I was trying to point out things that could be improved, and my default style is to write them as complaints (of course, if they were praises, I wouldn't sound negative
I've even gone out of my way to explain previous comments and posts as not being purposefully offensive. I'm not sure how much more you could ask of me.
To not be offensive at all, purposeful or otherwise, would be nice.
Discouragement
To elaborate, then, at Deckiller's request.
1) Versalia believes that an environment of tough love, in which reviewers and critics of games are encouraged to be as harsh and critical as possible, and game developers are fully expected to meekly accept that kind of treatment. His goal is for such an environment to create a crucible in which stronger games can be forged due to the increased heat and pressure. He believes that any developer who objects to such treatment should be struck down, that they are a "pantywaist" who can't take the heat, that they should learn to sublimate their feelings and eagerly and meekly accept the feedback and criticism of everyone operating under the default assumption that their critics are right, and they are wrong. That they are students, and that their critics are teachers. He believes that this humility should be enforced as harshly as possible until receptive submission becomes the dominant attitude, the socially reinforced pose of creator: to take a whipping, and to learn from it.
2) I prefer a future in which the critics and reviewers of games are better encouraged to be positive and constructive, to be receptive and open to joy. To look for good things to say about games, and to, if they have bad things to say, make sure that the criticism is given constructively. The burden of a positive feedback giving experience would be more on the giver of the feedback than of the receiver. The creative process is an innately fragile thing, it should be handled delicately. I believe in this non-crucible theory for two reasons. One, I am immensely grateful to everyone who makes RPG Maker games, and I have immense respect for them. The truth is that even if their game is awful--and that I don't think my own games should be considered bad by any reasonable standard is really irrelevant here--the following things are true. a) That they spent an enormous amount of time and effort on it. b) That they're giving away a game to us to play, for free! For both of these reasons, I think that the process and attitude of giving feedback should be treated with more courtesy and respect by the givers of feedback. The makers of games are doing us a favor by making them, I firmly believe that--not the other way around. We aren't doing them a favor by playing them. Two is that I believe that an environment where no matter what the developers of games are treated with more respect and kindness will result in the community producing more and better games. More, because less people will quit due to fractured motivation. Better, because developers will be more likely to valid feedback if it's phrased constructively. I think that if we make this place more comfortable, by lowering the acidity and the pressure, we can nurture the construction of more better games and more pleasant discourse about them.
Versalia believes in a world where everyone would agree my reaction was totally unacceptable.
I believe in a world where everyone would agree that his actions were totally unacceptable.
1) Versalia believes that an environment of tough love, in which reviewers and critics of games are encouraged to be as harsh and critical as possible, and game developers are fully expected to meekly accept that kind of treatment. His goal is for such an environment to create a crucible in which stronger games can be forged due to the increased heat and pressure. He believes that any developer who objects to such treatment should be struck down, that they are a "pantywaist" who can't take the heat, that they should learn to sublimate their feelings and eagerly and meekly accept the feedback and criticism of everyone operating under the default assumption that their critics are right, and they are wrong. That they are students, and that their critics are teachers. He believes that this humility should be enforced as harshly as possible until receptive submission becomes the dominant attitude, the socially reinforced pose of creator: to take a whipping, and to learn from it.
2) I prefer a future in which the critics and reviewers of games are better encouraged to be positive and constructive, to be receptive and open to joy. To look for good things to say about games, and to, if they have bad things to say, make sure that the criticism is given constructively. The burden of a positive feedback giving experience would be more on the giver of the feedback than of the receiver. The creative process is an innately fragile thing, it should be handled delicately. I believe in this non-crucible theory for two reasons. One, I am immensely grateful to everyone who makes RPG Maker games, and I have immense respect for them. The truth is that even if their game is awful--and that I don't think my own games should be considered bad by any reasonable standard is really irrelevant here--the following things are true. a) That they spent an enormous amount of time and effort on it. b) That they're giving away a game to us to play, for free! For both of these reasons, I think that the process and attitude of giving feedback should be treated with more courtesy and respect by the givers of feedback. The makers of games are doing us a favor by making them, I firmly believe that--not the other way around. We aren't doing them a favor by playing them. Two is that I believe that an environment where no matter what the developers of games are treated with more respect and kindness will result in the community producing more and better games. More, because less people will quit due to fractured motivation. Better, because developers will be more likely to valid feedback if it's phrased constructively. I think that if we make this place more comfortable, by lowering the acidity and the pressure, we can nurture the construction of more better games and more pleasant discourse about them.
Versalia believes in a world where everyone would agree my reaction was totally unacceptable.
I believe in a world where everyone would agree that his actions were totally unacceptable.
Discouragement
@Deckiller: That is an EXTREMELY difficult line to see right now. The waters are very muddy, and I'm having a lot of trouble seeing where you're drawing the line. I hope you understand that if I do step over it, it's by accident.
~-~
First off, what does this even mean?
You are out of line. Not everything you're saying is out of line, and the way you're saying it isn't ALWAYS out of line, but a lot of the things you're saying, the way you're saying them, are out of line. It's innately inflammatory and abusive. It's starting trouble, and I think you're smart enough to know that.
I may be overreacting, but you are certainly going too far yourself.
***
The truth is your behavior is a glorious example of what is wrong with the community, because of your ongoing refusal to conduct yourself with good manners, cordiality, or decency. Your posts are aggressive, arrogant, and rude, and then you actually have the gall to seem surprised when I quote unquote "flip the fuck out". That, right there, is a glorious example of what is wrong with the community.
But if you want, I can elaborate even further. I'll wait, first, to make sure that this post isn't offensive or transgressive in the eyes of the staff.
Not to be overly radical or anything, but it's possible that we simply have two irreconcilable, deeply held viewpoints about what is wrong with the community, and we should agree to disagree.
~-~
Even a positive, constructive commenter like physhal is wrong in every way based on Max's response to said post.
First off, what does this even mean?
If they are overreacting, they are overreacting - I am not overcommenting. My opinion is my opinion.
You are out of line. Not everything you're saying is out of line, and the way you're saying it isn't ALWAYS out of line, but a lot of the things you're saying, the way you're saying them, are out of line. It's innately inflammatory and abusive. It's starting trouble, and I think you're smart enough to know that.
I may be overreacting, but you are certainly going too far yourself.
***
This is a glorious example of exactly what is wrong with "the community," a flaw you yourself desperately try over and over again to attribute to others.
The truth is your behavior is a glorious example of what is wrong with the community, because of your ongoing refusal to conduct yourself with good manners, cordiality, or decency. Your posts are aggressive, arrogant, and rude, and then you actually have the gall to seem surprised when I quote unquote "flip the fuck out". That, right there, is a glorious example of what is wrong with the community.
But if you want, I can elaborate even further. I'll wait, first, to make sure that this post isn't offensive or transgressive in the eyes of the staff.
Not to be overly radical or anything, but it's possible that we simply have two irreconcilable, deeply held viewpoints about what is wrong with the community, and we should agree to disagree.
Discouragement
author=Versalia
Shockingly similar to your reaction to my completely logical, rational and reasonable post, defending myself and my community at large, no?
author=Versalia
Max, fuck you.
author=Versalia
Max fucking begs for it.
author=Versalia
pity-me my-game-sucks-and-now-I-realize-it-boohoohoohoo
author=Versalia
GUYS MY FEELINGS ARE HURT HOW DO I MAK SHIT GAM :<
(btw my game does not "suck", it is not "shit", and you do not have the power to make me believe that)
LOL. You are really funny.
This is also not your community any more than it is mine; actually probably a lot less so. I've been around here longer than you have, and whether I like it or not I'll probably be around here long after you've moved on.
Good games are designed for the players, not the designer. Nobody cares if you want to play your own game.
Nobody cares what you think nobody cares about; at least I don't care, because that would be the salient point in this case since it's ME you're talking to. And I don't care. I don't care to discuss the finer points of game design with you; I find you boorish and unpleasant and most importantly cruel.
Why are you still posting here, Versalia? Go away. Your opinion is not needed or wanted or warranted or welcome here. You've made your point, you don't like me, you think I'm an asshole. That's great, bully for you. Now shut up. I will keep making games--games that some people really quite like, by the by--and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to bully me into submission. Nothing you can do to force me to stop, as much as you might want that.
Are you really intent on beating away at this dead horse until one or both of us gets banned? Just go away. I saw on your last post. You were warned just like I was. Why are you still continuing to start shit?
PS machineguns are not semi-automatic.
EDIT:
Since you snuck one in on me and I don't want to continue this with any further posts: feel free to keep wasting your breath, but I can't think of many things I value less than your opinion, and I can't wait until this site reinstates the feature that will enable me not to have to see something so worthless on my nice, clean game page.
Discouragement
Also, you seem to have already made up your mind about this community, but making blanket statements that condemn this entire community only serves to insult the few allies you have left. Its hard not to take offense when to say the entire community is a hive-mind and they can go fuck themselves. I know those were not your exact words but that was definitely the impression I got.
Physhal, I appreciate that but I really think that's not the essence of what I said at all. In any case, regardless of however what I said was taken: that's certainly not what I meant.
The main gameplay annoyance was that there was no quick way to switch to my battle gear. I had to go into the menu equip my gear manually every time I thought I might get into a battle.
Not sure if this helps at all, but you can use the Equip menu in battle.
I was looking forward to the more story-centered gameplay modes had mentioned. I have always thought that story and characters were your strong suit. Iron Gaia and Backstage had some rough moments but my desire to learn more about the characters and the world around them allowed me to push past the more frustrating moments. Journeyman as it stands is currently lacking that push and I look forward to seeing one in the future.
Thanks for the feedback; I found the gameplay in Journeyman alone addictive enough to keep me wanting to play, but the other modes will definitely have more story if and when they get made and I still find the story of the Short game kind of cute and amusing. I also hope that Journeyman as it currently exists has far less rough and/or frustrating parts than, for instance, the original Iron Gaia.
Discouragement
Discouragement
author=captainregal
Max I don't know how you do it... You just managed to make this the most used and read blog on RMN. Good Job! Anyway I was not going to try this game for awhile, but I have to now.
I have always loved the games you've made and have the greatest respect for the content you make. So as a fan of yours keep making great games. If you ever need help on a game you know where to pm me!
Captainregal, thank you so much, it's really quite heartening to hear that.
And it's nice to know one place I can find a good clip for the "buzz"/"praise"/"what people are saying" page I've been meaning to put together for some of my projects.
:D
Discouragement
Discouragement
Jalen, that's funny, my girlfriend handles all of the art too. : )
I see you apparently seem to fall into the small camp that thinks there's something seriously wrong with the gameplay of Journeyman or that it's not fun to play. That's fine. I don't, personally speaking, fall into that camp. So I'm less concerned with "fixing" the game (which I don't believe to be "broke") then I am with staying motivated about completing it when there are a few pretty vocal people who seem to really vehemently dislike it. Besides the obvious reasons, that's discouraging because I know from experience that it makes the people who did like the game less likely to say so, for fear they'll be attacked too. I've seen this happen time and time again. It's nice getting PMs like "I really liked your game, but I didn't want to post anything about it because I was scared to get flamed" but it's certainly not nice being in a community where that kind of thing happens. So I do try, in the little ways that I can, to change that aspect of this community.
The problem with putting the game down even for a moment (to consider any of the things you said) is that I am always completely surrounded with other ideas for projects I want to start, and it's really, really hard not to when I give them the other ideas an opening like that. Not that I haven't already set Journeyman aside to give myself a chance to cool off or whatever. But I don't have anywhere near the discipline that PentagonBuddy does in sticking to one project.
As to the whole topic of criticism and how to give/receive it; that's a big conversation we ALL really need to have some time. But it's too big for this blog post.
Thanks for the (oddly confessional) post though.
I see you apparently seem to fall into the small camp that thinks there's something seriously wrong with the gameplay of Journeyman or that it's not fun to play. That's fine. I don't, personally speaking, fall into that camp. So I'm less concerned with "fixing" the game (which I don't believe to be "broke") then I am with staying motivated about completing it when there are a few pretty vocal people who seem to really vehemently dislike it. Besides the obvious reasons, that's discouraging because I know from experience that it makes the people who did like the game less likely to say so, for fear they'll be attacked too. I've seen this happen time and time again. It's nice getting PMs like "I really liked your game, but I didn't want to post anything about it because I was scared to get flamed" but it's certainly not nice being in a community where that kind of thing happens. So I do try, in the little ways that I can, to change that aspect of this community.
The problem with putting the game down even for a moment (to consider any of the things you said) is that I am always completely surrounded with other ideas for projects I want to start, and it's really, really hard not to when I give them the other ideas an opening like that. Not that I haven't already set Journeyman aside to give myself a chance to cool off or whatever. But I don't have anywhere near the discipline that PentagonBuddy does in sticking to one project.
As to the whole topic of criticism and how to give/receive it; that's a big conversation we ALL really need to have some time. But it's too big for this blog post.
Thanks for the (oddly confessional) post though.
Discouragement
I'm not defending you. I'm trying to break this pointless cycle so that I can play a game that I really want to play without a whole bunch of drama stalling its development to death.
I got that. It's what I was responding to.
There are far more productive things we all could be doing than getting into this exact same argument over and over again.
I don't even know exactly what argument we're having anymore. I'm not sure it can even be described as an argument. I said that I was sad about the negative feedback the game had gotten and people posted things like "fuck you!" and "you're not allowed to be sad!".
Maybe we could discuss. How do you guys keep working on games when the joy goes out of it?
I do like how literally no one has even attempted to answer the OP question, though. It was actually meant in earnest.
EDIT: Jude did.
Games - Tester
Games - Other
